tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6719356366303333951.post7387712025730698170..comments2024-01-02T04:55:07.853-05:00Comments on Pieces of Me: PMSJLKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05396471022931966499noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6719356366303333951.post-42452459421376804152008-11-23T23:19:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:19:00.000-05:00JLK - I think that both of our arguments have been...JLK - I think that both of our arguments have been so absorbed in illustrating our own points that neither of us have articulated well what you just said - that it is a COMBINATION of factors, both biological and environmental that impact our behavior.<BR/><BR/>Do hormones have a biological effect on behavior? YES!<BR/><BR/>Are they the only factor? Of course not! If I had not had to stand for that exam on that particular day would I have had an anxiety attack? I don't know but I really doubt it. If I had not been on this hormone medication while taking my exam would I have had an anxiety attack? Again, I don't know but given a personal history of nailed oral exams without issue, I sincerely doubt it.<BR/><BR/>So the point is, both have a real effect on our behavior, and we DO try to sweep the hormone issue under the rug for fear of feeding anyone's misogynistic fantasies.<BR/><BR/>Don't worry about offending me. I get riled up and take things too personally sometimes, but I don't hold grudges.<BR/><BR/>My goal with that post was to inspire some discussion on the matter, and I'll say it was a huge success...would have been FAR less interesting without your input. I'm going to go read Arlenna's now.Ambivalent Academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908454781195782927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6719356366303333951.post-88683930886788899902008-11-23T23:04:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:04:00.000-05:00JLK: I may not agree with you, but you're entitled...JLK: I may not agree with you, but you're entitled to your opinions so stick to your guns about your argument. The response you've generated from this is very reminiscent of the other hot topic about people being confronted about their work in a public forum (ala Grand Poobah's). Watching intelligent, articulate scientists argue back and forth is what makes science fun. Welcome to the blogosphere!Professor in Traininghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10903558307394806532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6719356366303333951.post-54982240463363291322008-11-23T23:01:00.000-05:002008-11-23T23:01:00.000-05:00AA, I was not at all trying to imply that you woul...AA, I was not at all trying to imply that you would EVER hide behind hormones or that it would be okay with you if people said that you were PMSing after you left the room. I am very upset that I have offended you, because that was never my intention. <BR/><BR/>Arlenna and I have turned the conversation in a direction that is more toward what I was trying to get at over on her blog. My point was more that you were in an anxiety-provoking situation that was likely amplified by the hormones. But there is always a situational factor to be dealt with that cannot just be ruled out. <BR/><BR/>Now your science, and the same with Arlenna's, deals with the physical nature. My specialty field, by its very definition, focuses on the situational influences that change our behavior and emotional states. So I'm coming at this from a slightly different perspective than the two of you, though we all agree that as women, our hormones do affect us in ways that we're not always happy about. <BR/><BR/>My heart broke for you when I read your story about crying during the examination. I haven't been in the same situation, but I've had experiences like it. <BR/><BR/>There are just so many different variables when it comes to human behavior and emotion, which is why science finds it so difficult to even define premenstrual symptoms. I know that you think I'm saying we should ignore hormonal effects because of the politics behind them, but that's not really what I'm saying. <BR/><BR/>What I'm trying to say is that unless and until some hard, good science proves that fluctuating hormones cause women to be miserable around their periods, I hesitate to attribute it all to the biological factors that inherently make us female. <BR/><BR/>The worst part about it is even if a really good study came out that pretty much proved that estrogen level doesn't cause women to act in erratic ways, no one would believe it. <BR/><BR/>Gender is something I study extensively. And one thing I know from my research is that the stuff that gets published is the stuff that demonstrates a difference between men and women. It's considered sexier, it sells more journals and lands in newspaper headlines. <BR/><BR/>But all of the research that shows men and women to be the same gets swept under the rug because it doesn't conform to our society's expectations. <BR/><BR/>Remember when the studies were published that said boys are naturally better at math than girls? How much press that got, and how many people still believe that?<BR/><BR/>There have been TONS of studies that show girls and boys to have the same abilities, but that they get altered by environmental factors like the timing of math education, stereotype threat, expectations, and sexism in the classroom. Why don't we ever hear about those studies?<BR/><BR/>It's the nature of my field. I have a really difficult time ever accepting biology as the only influence for anything.JLKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05396471022931966499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6719356366303333951.post-32898385051440880012008-11-23T22:09:00.000-05:002008-11-23T22:09:00.000-05:00As I said in the comments at mine, I think that yo...As I said in the comments at mine, I think that your point of view here nicely illustrates the reaction to the marginalization of women that is founded on a perception that our propensity for estrogens over androgens makes us a bunch of crazy bitches. I get it. And it totally pisses me off. Nonetheless, as much as I wish I didn't, I do experience these symptoms and as a biologist who studies hormones I cannot categorically ignore their effect because it suits my agenda.<BR/><BR/>Here's the thing. It's not "abnormal". I experience it every month. Lots of women do. If every woman did 50% of the population would have these symptoms every month. That, to me, makes it very "normal" with respect to the population at large.<BR/><BR/>However, when I compare my most intolerable mental-emotional state that I experience for a few days each month to how I feel for the majority of the rest of the month, it is "abnormal" FOR ME. (See the difference in my "baseline" comparison?) I do not feel like the me that I know, I am compromised in my ability to DEAL with the crap that comes with my job, and that bugs the shit out of me, but I hold it down as best I can. Yes, I feel that that is a brain dysfunction BUT I sure as shit don't want anyone else to call it that because I don't want the stigma of a mental illness laid on my name or my professional persona or my gender. <BR/><BR/>I KNOW that fluctuating hormones can affect my mental state and make me feel abnormal as compared to myself that I recognize when my hormones are stable, but I do NOT want for that to be an excuse for other people to marginalize my rationality especially since I am in a field that requires me to be rational to do my job well. Which is precisely the dilemma that Arlenna and I were discussing.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I lost it in my exam. Do I want people to say "that's OK, she was PMSing"? FUCK no, and I find it somewhat offensive that you would imply that I would want to hide behind this marginalization of women. I think the fact that I will never feel comfortable setting my advisor straight on what really happened their speaks to this quite clearly - I don't want him to see me as "abnormal" or "unstable" or "irrational" because of something I can't change with out a hysterectomy (not that I would want to). That would be bigotry, but as you acknowledge it happens everywhere and has been going on for centuries so I KNOW the danger of bringing it up. Just look at the reaction it got from you...and you're not writing my letters of rec.<BR/><BR/>I rather found quite a bit of comfort in the realization that the <I>medication</I> I was on exacerbated my expected exam-related stress level to the point that I cracked. I wasn't losing it. I didn't have an anxiety disorder. I wasn't mentally ill. I had a side effect reaction to my medication. <BR/><BR/>The fact that the medication is a hormone changes absolutely nothing about it. I introduced a substance into my body and it had an unintended effect - it amplified my anxiety - no big surprise. The fact that I know a little bit about the biological action of said substance allows me to draw some corollaries to how I know said substance functions in my body at endogenous levels. <BR/><BR/>That is all.Ambivalent Academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908454781195782927noreply@blogger.com